An Inverted Resume
Ep. 01

An Inverted Resume

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0:00

Casey: Hi.

0:00

I'm Casey!

0:01

And I'm here with Clara.

0:03

We're gonna go through Clara's resume preparation.

0:07

I do a lot of career coaching for friends and family

0:09

and friends of friends, and especially in tech.

0:12

Here are the four stages that I like to do, whether I'm applying

0:14

to a job or helping someone else.

0:16

I've already done a couple of these with Clara.

0:18

We're here on step three already.

0:19

I talked with Clara about "what's important to Clara in a job"

0:22

and "what jobs does she want",

0:23

and we picked some, we got one that Clara's targeting now.

0:27

And now we wanna make sure that Clara can get through the screening process

0:30

and then the interview is later.

0:31

We're not talking about that today.

0:33

I've got a whole bunch of worksheets.

0:35

So Clara did this worksheet 3B, which I call the "inverted resume",

0:38

and we'll be going through what Clara did.

0:41

anyway, before we hear more about me

0:43

or we start this actual session itself, let's hear from Clara.

0:47

Clara: Hi, Um, so I am applying for manager, senior manager,

0:55

director, roles in program managing.

0:57

I am a public health professional by trade and training, and that's the

1:02

general area that I wanna work in.

1:04

Although I do like a lot of other different types of programs.

1:06

I spent a lot of time doing community and grassroots type work,

1:10

and now I'm moving my resume and interest to shift over to more

1:15

managerial directorship type roles.

1:18

So here's one that I found.

1:20

It's a good commuting distance for me.

1:24

It's a topic area I like.

1:26

It's a title that I like and the work itself seems to fit very

1:30

well within what I like to do.

1:32

I believe that I am one hundred percent qualified for this job,

1:36

so I want to make sure that my resume both reflects what I am qualified to do,

1:42

gives really good solid examples and is easy to read

1:45

and also gives off director, manager, um, attitude.

1:49

Not really as much Grassroots coordinator attitude is what I was doing before.

1:55

Casey: The other day, Clara, you were telling me about this worksheet

1:58

and how it was frustrating in a way,

2:01

but really helpful and good I wanna hear that.

2:03

Tell us

2:04

Clara: Yeah, it was frustrating because the thing is like,

2:08

I don't know if anybody else does this, but I do this

2:10

when I'm making a new resume:

2:12

I usually start with the resume I already have, and

2:14

I go through and read the whole thing and I fix it, change it,

2:18

add in some quantifiable things.

2:20

I think really hard about all the functions I did in that job

2:23

to make sure I'm giving myself credit for each thing.

2:26

Um, and.

2:29

The issue I was having is that I find myself summating a lot

2:33

or having lots of summation, bullet points,

2:36

things that give you vague ideas about what I was doing,

2:39

but not things that give you concrete examples or very clear things that

2:44

anyone who can read it can look at, grab it, latch onto it, bring it up

2:49

in interviews and conversation later.

2:51

And, I realized that for in three different ways:

2:54

one, after reading or rereading this worksheet for the inverted resume,

3:00

I was like, "okay, uh, I think I already do that."

3:03

Like, I was trying to convince myself that I already, you know, I'm

3:06

already addressing what needs to be addressed for the job description.

3:10

And I look back at my resume, I'm like,

3:11

"I'm kind of embarrassed about this..."

3:13

Casey: Yeah.

3:14

Yeah, I do that

3:15

Clara: necessarily bad.

3:17

Yeah.

3:18

'cause it's like you don't really think, oh, this is bad.

3:20

You don't really think that.

3:20

It's more like a uh,

3:22

it's like you look at something too long, you stop seeing it fully,

3:26

Casey: Yeah.

3:27

We also have what's called the "curse of knowledge".

3:30

'cause we know all the stuff that we've done

3:32

and so when we look at our own resume,

3:33

we're like, "yeah, that, that one line on line 57

3:36

of my really dense and wordy resume that I have,

3:39

it's obvious that I'd be really good at this job.

3:41

They, they should know!"

3:42

But how could know??

3:43

If it's just one line of the

3:44

Clara: How could they know?

3:45

Casey: You really have to design it.

3:47

Clara: I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8.

3:49

I have 8 two-line bullet points for each of the jobs, and that's me paring it down.

3:55

It's super dense.

3:56

There's lots of commas.

3:59

And I'm just like *sigh*.

4:01

I'm embarrassed BECAUSE I know as someone who's had to read resumes,

4:05

it's REALLY hard to read that and pick out anything useful.

4:09

So I was frustrated because as soon as I reread my resume, after looking at this.

4:13

I was like: "I have to redo the whole thing"

4:16

"I have to redo the whole thing 😭".

4:19

It was super frustrating, BUT it was nice going through this worksheet because

4:24

sometimes it's hard to sort of access that creative writing part of my brain,

4:29

but with the worksheet, it's sort of like you're asking yourself questions

4:33

that you just need to answer, and that makes it very clear and concise,

4:36

Casey: these questions, these questions ARE what the resume-skimming

4:41

person is asking themselves, right?

4:43

That's where these questions came from, and you're writing

4:45

them, imagining for that person.

4:46

Once you wrote them, then you can answer them.

4:50

Clara: Yeah, and I'm, I'm not, sometimes I get into a weird head

4:56

space when dealing with resumes.

4:57

It's a really unique document to try to write.

5:00

So instead of trying to get super intensified, I just copy and

5:04

paste important lines and grouped them together in the topics area.

5:08

So like -this job description, talks a lot about managing

5:12

internal/external partnerships.

5:15

So when I saw, I picked out two or so instances of that.

5:21

and I just pasted them, like "facilitating community outreach strategies".

5:25

Those external partnerships.

5:27

Um, "facilitating meetings of key partner stakeholders."

5:30

That's external partnerships.

5:32

And so I picked out the, those type of things, even just the one above it.

5:37

Uh, "working collaboratively with internal external partnerships",

5:40

partners.

5:41

So it's like right there.

5:44

So I was like, oh, this is obviously important.

5:45

So I picked out those three bullet points and put it under a topic, and

5:49

then I sat there, I put my resume down,

5:53

Casey: Yeah.

5:53

That's hard.

5:54

Uhhuh

5:55

Clara: it's hard.

5:56

It's so hard.

5:57

I sat there and I'm like,

5:59

yeah,

5:59

Casey: this a different document?

6:01

Clara: no, that's, that's the same document.

6:02

It's not as pretty, but you know, that's,

6:05

Casey: it's just notes.

6:06

Clara: a section...

6:07

it's just notes!

6:08

And it's just like, um, I would just pick up things that seem to go together.

6:14

Yeah.

6:14

And I just wrote, and I just wrote down quick things that

6:18

came to memory about experiences, uh, that support those things.

6:26

like this topic area on researching

6:29

evidence-based practices.

6:32

And I was like, okay, well, my whole master's thesis was about that.

6:35

I wrote an entire technical assistance package for policymakers,

6:38

and I literally had that nowhere on my resume!

6:41

It's not on my resume.

6:42

It's not at all.

6:42

Casey: Ah..

6:43

Clara: I didn't even think about that!

6:46

And because I,

6:47

Casey: I've done that a lot too.

6:48

Of course, they'll know.

6:50

But!

6:50

Clara: Of course they'll realize that the ONE line that says I have a Master's in

6:54

public health and Behavioral and Community Health will let them understand that

6:58

I OBVIOUSLY have a working knowledge of how to convert

7:01

like information and evidence research based

7:04

into research based practices and implement them.

7:07

Of course, they'll know that 🙄 --nope!

7:09

Casey: It's funny hearing us say it now.

7:10

'cause we have the gift of hindsight now.

7:12

So this is funny maybe, but

7:14

a lot of people get really stuck in thinking that their resume

7:16

is already great, but they don't know why they're not getting the

7:20

interviews that they were hoping for.

7:22

Including me, sometimes!

7:24

I'm not immune.

7:25

I have to do my own process, so that I'm gonna do that the right way.

7:27

It's not like I developed a process and magically I do it right every time.

7:31

I have to remember.

7:33

To pull out my own worksheets.

7:34

Clara: how to do

7:34

Casey: it's not natural.

7:34

This isn't like a natural way to approach it.

7:37

Clara: No!

7:38

It's also daunting.

7:39

It's daunting to think about redoing your resume

7:43

'cause you spent so much time trying to remember,

7:45

and I don't know if you're like me, Casey, but

7:47

when I'm in a job and I do something I'm particularly proud of, I jot

7:50

it down in like a, like a working

7:52

document or something

7:53

Casey: A "smile file," some people call it.

7:54

I have one of those.

7:55

Clara: A smile file, success stories,

7:57

Casey: It's just a Google Doc for me.

7:59

just one Google Doc that's long now.

8:02

Clara: Ugh.

8:02

But it's, it's good and bad!

8:04

Because you, you wanna tell people how great you are and you're like,

8:08

"look at all this cool stuff I know how to do," but that's

8:11

not what they're asking about.

8:14

The resume is like your highlights reel.

8:16

It's not supposed to be the hour and a half documentary,

8:20

Casey: Yep.

8:20

The hour and a half documentary is the CV, which most jobs don't even ask for.

8:25

Clara: Right.

8:25

Casey: and if you want can include a highlights reel attached to a CV.

8:29

Sometimes I do that.

8:30

Clara: Mm-Hmm.

8:31

Casey: some jobs don't want that, whatever,

8:32

you have to read this job description.

8:34

Some people will send BOTH in to a job, and it works sometimes,

8:37

but sometimes it gets disregarded.

8:39

Whatever, it's...

8:40

every company's different.

8:41

But yeah, the CV is, is what most people think of as the resume.

8:44

It's closer to the CV idea.

8:46

Mm-hmm.

8:47

Clara: Right.

8:47

And actually, for some people it's very hard to distinguish them.

8:51

Because either you have a lot of research or published papers and

8:55

you like wanna bring up all that, it's can be hard to distinguish.

8:58

But I still, I'm trying to train my mind to think about it as,

9:02

this is your highlights reel.

9:03

This is the trailer to your movie.

9:04

They don't need to know every single thing about you.

9:06

They need to know, are you going to meet their qualifications / later standards?

9:10

Are you meeting their expectations?

9:12

Can they pull it out immediately?

9:13

And that led to me writing down these notes.

9:16

And I had talked to Casey about this before, but

9:19

I started this worksheet and I literally put it away because I was

9:21

like, I have to redo everything.

9:23

Casey: Yeah, yeah.

9:24

do that.

9:25

It can be overwhelming.

9:26

That's human.

9:26

Clara: Yeah, yeah.

9:27

Because it's, it's totally human.

9:29

Like even in the same bullet point.

9:31

um, asking about evidence-based practices,

9:34

things that I didn't even like -- okay.

9:36

On here, adjunct instructor.

9:39

I'm an adjunct instructor for two different universities, and

9:43

Casey: Mm-Hmm.

9:43

Clara: I have that on my resume, it's on there, but the part the

9:47

part where I talk about, like, I say, oh, I made a curriculum.

9:50

I don't say the fact that I use, I did tons of research, went to literal classes.

9:56

Evidence-based practices on how to teach in a diverse classroom and how

10:01

to develop a curriculum so that as many students as plausible can succeed

10:05

and retain the information that you've given them and use them in real life.

10:09

That stuff, I'm like, "Ugh, I didn't,

10:11

I didn't exactly represent that," and

10:14

I'm like, well, that was such a dynamic experience.

10:16

Why didn't I talk about it?

10:17

I forgot!

10:18

Casey: Yeah, curse of knowledge too!

10:20

And maybe also forgetting, sure, both, both happen.

10:23

Clara: No, but I like, I forget that no one's...

10:26

not, everyone's gonna read the same sentence and think

10:28

about all those explicit things

10:30

that comes to mind when I think about them.

10:32

Casey: Yeah.

10:32

Yeah.

10:33

And even if they're, um, screening - whoever it is, HR, the hiring manager,

10:37

whoever's doing the screening - even if they are really on top of it and

10:39

they're really thorough and read line by line and really think about the

10:42

depth of the meaning of every line.

10:44

Like we naively always naturally (me too) always imagine they'll do for us

10:49

give us that benefit of the doubt.

10:51

Maybe they CAN'T because they don't have enough of the context

10:53

here to know what "teaching as an adjunct at the university" MEANT.

10:56

They can't, it's not there.

10:56

Even if they wanted to be super thorough.

10:58

But they're also NOT super thorough, usually.

11:02

Me, when I was, doing hiring and screening people at different companies.

11:06

Often I'll get a resume, like an hour before an interview when I'm

11:09

interviewing someone I'm like, why didn't I get this sooner?

11:11

And I skim it real quick and I feel bad about it, but that's just like the hiring

11:15

pipeline is very rushed a lot of the time.

11:16

They're trying to be efficient.

11:18

And so knowing some people are like that, most people, we have to make it SUPER

11:22

SUPER readable, skimmable so that someone who's screening candidates, a whole

11:27

bunch of candidates, they know they need "research evidence-based practices," that

11:30

kind of thing, and they can just open your resume and look at it and be like,

11:33

"She's got it; next!"

11:34

like we want it to be quick, quick, quick.

11:37

Clara: Yeah.

11:37

Casey: We'll get you there, Clara.

11:38

I don't think we're there yet.

11:39

That's why gonna work on this together today.

11:41

But we will.

11:42

I think this next resume version is gonna be like,

11:45

"DUH she's qualified for this job!"

11:46

anyone who up resume is gonna say, that's what we need.

11:49

Clara: I really hope so.

11:50

Casey: You've got the experience, that's clear.

11:53

Clara: I, I definitely do I just kinda

11:56

Casey: Just how do we frame it.

11:58

Clara: So, yeah, so this worksheet has been both good and, uh, frustrating

12:04

Casey: Sure, sure.

12:05

So for the frustrating part, I'm glad we get to work together on it now 'cause

12:08

I think doing it in a pair really - it helps me when I'm doing my own, I

12:11

try to get in a second pair of eyes.

12:13

It can reduce the stress a lot.

12:15

Clara: Yeah.

12:17

So what happens now?

12:19

Do we go through this?

12:21

Do we, I have to delete, basically, I have to delete everything under each of

12:25

my jobs, under my traditional style resume

12:30

Casey: Yeah.

12:30

Yeah.

12:30

Clara: to insert the appropriate things, but yeah.

12:34

Casey: So I wanna talk through this so I'm, I can follow what you have here,

12:37

at least the highlights of each one.

12:39

So first topic, data driven clinical decision making.

12:45

Oh yeah, I like that.

12:46

You change the font needs.

12:48

They're different.

12:48

Yep.

12:49

Different clauses to the same kind of idea.

12:51

Straight from the job description probably.

12:53

Right,

12:54

Clara: Mm-Hmm.

12:55

Casey: Right.

12:55

So tell me about your highlight experiences here.

12:58

Oh, um, first I wanna mention in my worksheet, I separate highlight

13:02

experiences, which is this part from the how to grow and develop further.

13:07

And for some people, there's a lot in the how to grow part.

13:09

If you have a dream job, you wanna grow into it.

13:11

But most people that I work with actually have so much in the

13:14

highlight experiences already.

13:15

That's where we focus.

13:16

So Clara, I today we can mostly focus on the highlight experiences and

13:20

try to get each into the resume that

13:21

I know you have in you already.

13:22

then the how to grow.

13:23

I mean, we can talk about it, but that's maybe not the focus

13:26

feel free to bring it up, but All right.

13:28

Highlight experiences.

13:28

Ready?

13:29

I'm ready to hear about this.

13:30

Clara: All right, so first three about evaluating data, data-driven

13:34

decision making, usually involving research practices, training,

13:38

evaluation, implementation, et cetera.

13:40

Casey: Mm-Hmm.

13:41

Clara: So I kind of put all those together because that is,

13:44

those are all pieces of the same process.

13:47

Um, from data to implementation.

13:50

It should be, that is the data-driven process.

13:53

So I put in highlights where I took specific initiatives

13:57

and data-driven processes.

13:59

The first thing I have listed there is the

14:01

Learning management system at ACPM, my previous employer.

14:04

And, um.

14:07

the learning management system is their software for

14:12

storing, organizing and delivering

14:14

their education material.

14:16

I went in there, I looked at what was doing well, what wasn't.

14:19

I changed what appeared in the featured section,

14:23

how the homepage appeared

14:24

based on feedback directly from participants and students.

14:28

I also went through and I looked at where people are clicking,

14:32

where they're not clicking,

14:33

how they're getting to certain courses that are doing well.

14:37

Some courses, they got to it through the main page.

14:39

Some courses, they only ever went to it through the link they were given

14:43

because the page was too difficult to navigate

14:45

or they couldn't find it

14:46

because our search engine needed a little bit more work.

14:50

The, the keywords weren't working properly.

14:52

So I went in there and changed those.

14:54

I tagged, I edited the metadata.

14:57

I worked with the company that was supporting us, uh,

15:00

month over month with IT questions

15:03

to explain to me more

15:05

how we could better utilize the system they've built.

15:08

So I spent a lot of time in that learning management system,

15:11

collecting data, realizing what was wrong, fixing it, changing it,

15:16

implementing later on how we upload courses,

15:20

what information we prioritize putting in there, and how

15:23

we can streamline a process

15:25

from an in-person program

15:27

to the evaluation that they have to take after the program

15:30

in that learning management system.

15:31

So that was a lot of data-driven work.

15:35

Casey: Right.

15:36

part of me wants to write all that down, but there's a separate

15:39

exercise I wanna do for stories.

15:40

That's on worksheet four.

15:42

on interview stories.

15:43

So once we get to that point, we'll have the questions, we'll answer the,

15:47

those questions with these stories.

15:48

And you have plenty of those

15:50

for this part, for the resume, to get through the screening.

15:54

Uh, for the LMS, this bullet point,

15:56

how do you know you were successful?

15:58

How would someone look at,

15:59

--okay, you've done it

16:00

you've done this kind of work, sure, sure.

16:01

But did it work?

16:02

Did it meet your outcomes?

16:03

How do you know?

16:05

Clara: Oh, I know.

16:06

Because

16:06

sales increase for those products by 30%, where they were over year, over year.

16:13

Casey: Wow, that's huge

16:18

year over year.

16:19

I know that.

16:22

Leave me alone

16:27

Okay.

16:28

Okay.

16:28

That, that's a great resume line.

16:30

Think that's the, that's the advice everybody knows is like how do

16:32

you add metrics to your resume,

16:34

Clara: Mm-Hmm.

16:36

Casey: uh, via.

16:37

X, Y, Z and we can come back to that when we're in the resume itself.

16:40

I think it'll be easier to come up with those few.

16:43

Clara: Yeah.

16:44

Casey: Wow.

16:44

What a good resume line.

16:49

Uh, data driven.

16:51

We wanna have that phrase that's pretty important to them.

16:53

And it's true.

16:56

Clara: data-driven, evidence-based process.

17:01

Casey: Yeah.

17:02

okay.

17:03

Can we include the word evidence?

17:05

Sometimes I like to take notes on the words to put places.

17:08

Clara: Mm-Hmm.

17:10

Casey: If they use the word evidence, you should use the word evidence,

17:12

not a synonym as much.

17:14

I've had this problem before.

17:15

I said I am, uh, an Ember JS developer,

17:18

and someone told me, "oh, well you don't know JavaScript"

17:21

Ember JS.

17:22

The JS is JavaScript.

17:23

It stands for that; they didn't know!

17:24

The screener was not technical enough to know that was

17:25

equivalent, or similar, or related.

17:28

So in tech I have to put JavaScript apparently!

17:31

If the screener might not know all the specific languages.

17:35

But then the hiring manager, they know and it's like redundant.

17:37

It's a wasted word.

17:38

It's like not adding much value for the density.

17:41

But anyway, the audience of this one, I'm telling all this to make a big point.

17:44

It's the screener, the HR screener, or

17:46

someone who might not have all the context --they have to get it.

17:49

Clara: Yeah.

17:50

Casey: I love that you called out evidence.

17:51

We wanna have that word there.

17:53

Clara: Mm-Hmm.

17:54

Casey: All right.

17:54

Um, are these in rough priority order or the order that you thought of them?

17:58

Clara: The order that I thought of them,

17:59

and usually that to do

18:01

with the difficulty level it was,

18:03

or like how intense that experience was.

18:06

has very little to do how relevant I think it is.

18:09

Casey: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

18:10

I happen to remember the LMS when we talked before,

18:12

so I know that is a big deal

18:13

and the kind of thing that, folks hiring you might be interested in.

18:16

But anyway, for the next- there's a lot here.

18:18

If you had to pick what's the next most important one to THIS

18:22

employer for the health equity manager at CVS, that kind of thing?

18:27

Clara: Hmm.

18:29

It would be the next one.

18:32

Um, those next two bullets go together, and then it would be the one that

18:38

says, uh, researching best practices for learning and listening modules.

18:46

Casey: Great, Okay.

18:48

X is just my placeholder.

18:50

You can't make it an empty bullet until you do anyway, whatever.

18:53

Alright, tell me about this one.

18:54

Researching best practices for learning and listing modules.

18:57

That sounds like something specific I might not know.

19:01

Clara: Um, it's just a summative sentence.

19:04

I was trying to get it out of my head as quick as possible,

19:06

but I was serving on the racial

19:09

Casey: Okay, so the term might be relevant to this.

19:12

Clara: no, term isn't relevant.

19:15

I was, uh, serving on the racial health equity committee when I was working at the

19:19

hospital's population health department.

19:21

When I was there, I had to help and oftentimes lead the development and

19:27

implementation of, uh, racial health training and education in, uh, structures,

19:35

modules, information, which involved, uh,

19:38

it involved listening sessions where we had discussions about

19:41

how comfortable people are about talking about race, et cetera, et cetera.

19:45

We had internal discussions about what information to prioritize

19:49

that everyone learn as foundational or, uh, baseline information.

19:54

How to incorporate the knowledge and information we learn into

19:57

best practices related to working with diverse groups, culturally diverse

20:02

Casey: Yeah.

20:02

Yeah.

20:02

Clara: groups of people.

20:04

Um, so that involves a lot of research about best practices for

20:08

leading discussions about difficult or racially driven conversations.

20:14

Um, it has, uh, a lot to do with finding, uh, industry acceptable resources

20:23

for building out those tools so that we could be on-par

20:26

and it could also be easily acceptable across the different

20:30

levels of the institution.

20:32

You know, I was working within a larger institution

20:35

and so the researching best practices had a lot to do with like information

20:40

as well as how best to integrate that information into

20:44

where I was working at the time.

20:46

Casey: How do you know that was helpful?

20:48

Sometimes, mean, I am someone who, I wanna do research a lot,

20:51

but sometimes I'll do research and do the same thing in the end

20:53

and someone could criticize me.

20:54

They have before some, (saying that) it wasn't useful.

20:56

think it might've been anyway.

20:58

But how would you prove to the skeptic?

21:00

That's what I wanna know here.

21:01

Clara: Well, we cr, we led the entire hospital.

21:06

Our department was the first one to get our committee up standing and going,

21:10

and it was so useful, so helpful.

21:12

Everyone liked it so much

21:13

that they actually gave us the "Excellence in Diversity and Awareness Award"

21:17

for our work on that committee.

21:19

Casey: Wow,

21:23

this committee won the the...

21:27

cool

21:28

Yeah, look, that's proof.

21:30

Uhhuh

21:31

. Ah, sure.

21:33

Uh, did that,

21:34

were you, on the committee, was it a small group?

21:36

Were you a leader of it?

21:37

Did you do the most of the research that part of the, what the committee did?

21:40

how was your involvement?

21:42

Clara: The committee was four to...

21:46

I would say four to 10 people

21:48

because it, we get more or less people.

21:51

Throughout the year, depending on what we're doing,

21:53

Casey: Yeah.

21:54

Clara: four to 10 people, I would call myself more of a leader of in that group

21:58

because I did a lot of work developing

22:01

the questions for book clubs, facilitating conversations,

22:06

talking through the structure of how to lead those, uh, listening sessions.

22:11

Um, and you know,

22:15

Talking through how to use the resources available to us to get it.

22:20

To get it in.

22:20

So I think that I was pretty

22:22

Casey: Okay, cool.

22:23

Clara: involved

22:24

Casey: can safely say, um, you were leading a committee.

22:27

That's roughly true.

22:28

It's more true than saying you were just a member.

22:30

So I would

22:31

summarize it to: you led the committee.

22:34

I don't think that's being deceptive because there's often multiple

22:36

leaders of the group anyway, this kind of committee structure.

22:40

But we don't need to say a whole sentence about how you were

22:42

only partially responsible.

22:43

That's really easy to WANT to do in resumes.

22:45

I wanna be very accurate and give everyone else credit,

22:47

but it's not functional for a skimming person.

22:51

That's (not what) they need to know.

22:52

Anyway, so led the committee,

23:01

which one?

23:03

That's the line we could use.

23:04

Something like that.

23:06

And then what we to get back in here,

23:08

which we don't have yet, is

23:10

they're looking for the data-driven clinical decision making.

23:13

Clara: Mm-Hmm.

23:14

Casey: You just told me all about how you did it

23:16

and how can we say it short?

23:18

Based on.

23:20

Industry best practices.

23:21

That just sound, feels very, know, weak.

23:24

I think there's gotta be some kind of specific thing.

23:27

Clara: I, yeah, that's tough because I'm not really sure how to, we,

23:32

Casey: Did you package the research?

23:34

Did you write a report about it based on 100 sources?

23:38

I'm trying to find like numbers.

23:39

I don't know.

23:40

Just one idea.

23:41

Clara: No, I didn't package it

23:42

Casey: in

23:42

what were you thinking?

23:43

Clara: that way.

23:44

We had an internal document where we collected the,

23:49

the direction in our goals for teaching and learning

23:51

where we listed all of our resources,

23:53

that we were going to use.

23:55

But

23:56

Casey: that was probably used by other departments, right?

23:58

The resources document.

24:00

Clara: Yes, that is used by other departments.

24:02

It's still used in that, that department actually,

24:04

um, even though I no longer work there,

24:07

Casey: Cool.

24:09

Clara: and like I said, we were the first departmental committee

24:13

to do something like that.

24:15

Um, the institution had it at a high level, but not our hospital

24:21

and not, other departments.

24:22

So.

24:23

I think a lot of people used what we did

24:26

as a blueprint for how to do theirs.

24:29

Casey: Yeah!

24:30

Oh man, how can we highlight that?

24:36

Uh, I might say our work was used by, how do we say many people in a specific way?

24:47

Many departments?

24:50

Our foundational work, how's that?

24:52

Clara: Mm-Hmm.

24:52

Casey: is that true?

24:54

Clara: Yeah.

24:55

Actually,

24:56

Casey: To improve patient outcomes.

24:59

Clara: That was the goal.

25:01

That's always the goal at the hospital.

25:02

Casey: Any metrics you can tie to it?

25:05

No, no numbers.

25:07

Uh, how do you know it successful?

25:08

People said it was valuable.

25:09

That's pretty good.

25:11

Uh,

25:11

Clara: People said it was valuable.

25:13

The hospital overall recognized the value of it and.

25:17

Casey: Yeah, the award, uh-huh.

25:18

Clara: What I, if I were to say, if I were just speaking colloquially,

25:23

how I would measure success in that is because

25:26

we were the population health department,

25:27

meaning we would go out into the community and do these things.

25:31

So I heard from a lot of community health workers and PRNs or, or rather,

25:36

uh, part-time nurses that

25:39

how the information that they learned, about context

25:44

for maybe some decision making that people have

25:47

or the way certain behaviors play out.

25:50

How that affected how compassionate and patient

25:55

they were able to be in their work,

25:56

which can be very difficult if you're someone who's providing resources

26:00

to the community at that level.

26:02

Casey: Cool.

26:03

I love hearing that.

26:04

So not only the company through the award, but also you heard from . Folks

26:08

on the ground, how helpful this was.

26:10

That is so heartwarming.

26:11

I love that kind of thing.

26:12

Yeah.

26:13

People want to -I know that -people want to do this kind of thing

26:16

and listen and be compassionate,

26:18

sometimes they need some kind of awareness they don't have yet.

26:20

Even if they're interested and have time, they need the skills

26:23

-and you're filling that gap.

26:35

cool.

26:37

Uh, had overwhelming.

26:39

Is that true?

26:40

It might not be true.

26:40

Uh, positive feedback from community health workers,

26:45

Is that something that CVS would care about?

26:49

Community health workers?

26:50

Is there another way to say that audience in a way they'd care about?

26:54

Clara: I don't know how to say in a way that they would

26:56

care about, but that is true!

26:58

I'm gonna say I think that there's a more general term, like

27:02

public health, population health workers, public health workers, that kind of thing.

27:06

Casey: Yeah.

27:13

Clara: because they specifically mentioned one of their, their,

27:16

some of their goals have to do with health equity, analytics,

27:20

bias reduction and diversity, equity and inclusion practices.

27:24

And is definitely in that wheelhouse, which is why is

27:27

something that came to mind.

27:28

'cause our whole thing is about health equity.

27:30

So I think bias reduction and all those things are important when

27:34

you're someone like a community health worker or a public health nurse.

27:52

Casey: Um, this group came up with training.

27:59

Uh, we can come back to wordsmithing this later, but something like this, I

28:03

feel like captures the essence you did.

28:04

That sounds good.

28:07

If you just said you led a committee, alone,

28:09

I don't think I'd be that impressed,

28:11

but of course, companies have subcommittees and people lead them.

28:13

Yeah, yeah -what did y'all do?

28:14

Did you do stuff?

28:15

Did you just meet every week and do nothing?

28:17

That happens sometimes,

28:18

but THIS wow - you got an award AND the people on the ground

28:20

who liked it, both

28:21

like leadership and...

28:23

that's what I'm looking for for this kind of thing,

28:28

and the award is really actually very powerful

28:31

even though sometimes I think that they're silly

28:33

-companies giving awards to their departments,

28:34

but they're really effective.

28:35

They're really powerful at signaling what the company values and

28:38

celebrating people who did good work.

28:39

So I've been coming around to enjoying awards at companies now.

28:44

Clara: Mm-Hmm.

28:47

Casey: Well, um, so we're not gonna get through everything, clearly,

28:50

in this session, but hopefully you'll get the pattern of like, what kinds of things

28:54

I'm looking for and the questions are.

28:55

Generally, it's like, how do we know?

28:57

How do we prove it to a skeptic?

28:59

Clara: Mm-Hmm.

29:01

Casey: Would you rather go to another section or do another one in here?

29:08

Clara: Uh,

29:09

Casey: Or shift gears to your resume.

29:10

If you're ready for that, that's fine too.

29:12

Clara: yeah, I'd rather shift resume.

29:15

Casey: Let's do that.

29:16

Clara: yeah, it's, I, I, can drop my, Uh, my, um,

29:23

I've been calling it my fake resume,

29:24

my resume that has a bunch of old bullet points in it.

29:28

'cause it just makes me too sad to delete it all at once.

29:32

Um,

29:32

Casey: Yeah.

29:33

Cool.

29:33

Yeah, I think we're at a good point here.

29:35

I think you've, you've probably seen like what I'm looking for in these

29:38

and what it looks like to, I guess, um, crystallize what

29:42

you've brainstormed here earlier.

29:43

I'm really glad you brainstormed this much.

29:45

It made this go a lot smoother and faster.

29:47

Um, so next, I think we can start putting this kind of thing

29:50

into your resume and see how it fits,

29:52

and then we'll go back and forth between what they're looking for

29:55

from the job description, from your themes that you pulled out here

29:57

and comparing that to your resume.

30:00

We'll do that next time.

30:02

Clara: All right.

30:02

Casey: This is starting to good!

30:03

I mean, it's still very obvious to me you have all of the competent skills

30:06

and background and evidence to get this next job,

30:11

. All right, talk to you soon.

30:13

Clara: Okay,

30:13

Casey: Bye, Clara.